Curse

PrimordialSun · Jul 11, 2008, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Guild Wars 2 sounds awesome!

Problem is people keep comparing it to old MMOs and basing their opinions on that.

There is a difference between 100 hours of pure grind (ala almost every MMO made to this date) and what they said in that interview.

The way i see it is that you can play a single character and still feel that he gets new, exciting, stuff, much like in GW: prophecies (new skills via quests) but even more in ways of gear etc.

Much like a single player game that lasts for 100 hours+ doesn't feel like a grind.

DreamWind · Jul 11, 2008, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

b) power stops growing eventually like GW1.

Are you sure about that? I wouldn't be shocked at all if the higher your level, the better you are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

c) you don't know the leveling speed.

Does it matter? All that matters is it will take AT LEAST hundreds of hours (possibly thousands) to do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

d) gw1 is the exact same way and isn't very grindy with its level system now is it.

Its grindy only because of the stuff they added after level 20. It was not supposed to be grindy in the first place, and having a level 20 cap was a part of that philosophy that not went down the craphole.

Alazardragoon · Jul 11, 2008, 05:55 AM // 05:55

If they have no level cap I will not be playing it for sure. I don't approve of a game that has a endless level cap. If the level cap is lets say Lineage 2? There is no way in hell that I will be playing that. But If the level cap is lets say level 50, at the speed you level in Nightfall or prophecies... I will not mind that at all. I just honestly Don't want another Grind fest period. Guild wars is the only online non grind fest game out there. I really hope they don't screw that up.

Yawgmoth · Jul 11, 2008, 08:41 AM // 08:41

I also don't want any grindfest there but I'm really hoping they will do a system with NO level cap and with NO strict power level cap.

I know a high level cap or the concept of having no cap at all sounds really scary for many people out there, but that's mainly because of the influence of the mass of other mmo games full of insane grind. But Anet never said GW2 will copy those games!

They can go a step further.

It is possible to create a system which is casual/newbie friendly and still rewarding for the most hardcore. It just takes proper balancing and scaling of progress.

So, for example, you could have a certain level, let's say level 50, which may be the highest level required for the most high-end armors and weapons and providing you enough power to be able to take on all of the game's most elite content. And this level will be reachable for everyone, even very casual players, after simply following all the main storyline and taking 1/2 of sidequests or no sidequests but joining a few mid-high level dungeon clearing groups a several times or even solo grinding mobs in explorables if you only want so - this should be just one of viable options, till that level 50).

But after that you don't stop gaining levels or power but everything changes - the basic exp sources like mobs or regular quests/missions should start to provide less and less experience, the levels require more and more. So no level cap doesn't mean there will be players running with stupidly high close to meaningless numbers. And the major game-defining benefits coming from gaining levels should be strongly limited - there should definately NOT be a situation where certain character builds can be played only after reaching a high level above that 50.

After reaching that level 50, NEW ways of gaining experience should appear - based on unique achievements, something akin to GW1 non-grindy titles, but expanded even further. Clearing every dungeon, completing every mission on master rewad, learning all elite skills, participation in events, victories in world pvp, special master quests... whole world of possibilities!
Just one key point - repetetive gameplay should bring in diminishing returns, so mindless grind is far from optimal way for gaining levels above that 50.

Lonesamurai · Jul 11, 2008, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Are you sure about that? I wouldn't be shocked at all if the higher your level, the better you are.

Nope, Jeff strain himself aswell as Martin Kerstein and Gaile before she changed roles all confirmed the Power Cap in GW2, meaning that after a certain point (say lvl 20 for example) you won't be any stronger

Although gear will change that in PvE and world PvP, but GvG, everyone will be maxedout, no matter what they have/haven't got

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Does it matter? All that matters is it will take AT LEAST hundreds of hours (possibly thousands) to do it.

Nope, probably about the same as we have now,just a number aboveyour head for others to see forthose that want the bragging rights of a high number, but it means nothing

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Its grindy only because of the stuff they added after level 20. It was not supposed to be grindy in the first place, and having a level 20 cap was a part of that philosophy that not went down the craphole.

and the "grind" is optional, you don;t needto use it ordo it... and the samewill be the case in GW2... the only GW1 grind I've done is thenorn title formy rangers norn armour

DarkNecrid · Jul 11, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Are you sure about that? I wouldn't be shocked at all if the higher your level, the better you are.

Yes.

Anet said so.

Quote:

Does it matter? All that matters is it will take AT LEAST hundreds of hours (possibly thousands) to do it.

o rly?

Quote:

Its grindy only because of the stuff they added after level 20. It was not supposed to be grindy in the first place, and having a level 20 cap was a part of that philosophy that not went down the craphole.

Yes, having a cap that is easily reachable and making the game begin early is something ArenaNet has always stood by.

And something they are seemingly going for with GW2. People are just focusing on something that quite possible the interviewer said, and not Jeff. (if you read that part again, it has misuse of "".

Bryant Again · Jul 11, 2008, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

I'm sorry, but how else are we supposed to take "It is certain that you will be leveling your character over hundreds of hours."? If you live in some parallel universe where hundreds of hours isn't grind, good for you. Some of us live here on Earth.

I'd only consider the "grind" a problem if the whole game was based relative to it.

Remember Diablo? You had to spend a huge amount of time reaching each new level. But you weren't restricted from huge portions of the game because of it. Going from the Monestary to Hell did not span all of the levels, only a part of them. The rest of the levels were "made to use" through increased difficulties. As far as we know, GW2 could be following the same route.

That I don't have much of a problem with. In fact, as a Diablo fan,

In regards to the rest: None of this is news. It's been announced for a very long time about how much of an impact your skill will have over your time. ANet's been very clear about the direction it will take. Whether it leads more into an RPG direction than an MMO one has yet to be determined, but I share everyone's concerns in that regard.

Nonetheless, it is indeed very depressing to see them shy away from what made their PvE great in the first place.

Jormungandr · Jul 11, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Well, looks like I won't be getting GW2 then. I bought it specifically because grinding to be a higher level to succeed was bullshit. Who needs skill when you have levels, M I RITE?

Molock · Jul 11, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimordialSun

Guild Wars 2 sounds awesome!

Problem is people keep comparing it to old MMOs and basing their opinions on that.

There is a difference between 100 hours of pure grind (ala almost every MMO made to this date) and what they said in that interview.

The way i see it is that you can play a single character and still feel that he gets new, exciting, stuff, much like in GW: prophecies (new skills via quests) but even more in ways of gear etc.

Much like a single player game that lasts for 100 hours+ doesn't feel like a grind.

The problem I have with the "hundreds of hours is this, if it takes hundreds of hours to reach the maximum level there are two possibilities. The storyline is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing long and there is a TON of quests (which are story related) OR you grind mobs and lame boar genocide quests (ala WoW). Another possibility would be that the story ends before you reach maximum level and you max your level with end game content (which of course would eventually become limited to the higher levels).

Also, they mentioned that as you reach higher levels the power increase you gain will progressively become less significant. Look at Ursan now, there is a very little difference between the power of an r9 ursan and an r10 ursan yet many groups will only accept r10 and in almost any case a r10 will be chosen before an r9. I have a feeling that anet is going completely off track and trying to create a game that will please scrubs who just want to show of their "leet level".